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Discussion : Internet Fraud by Freelance Websites

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2006-08-02 18:02:37 - Sergey
Natalie,

> I provided a $1K deposit, and placed $2K in escrow,
> to a developer by the name of CodeRover
> on Getafreelancer for a web-based app.

Escrow service doesn't works without arbitrage service. Your "So in closing:" is actual for GetAFreelnacer, because GAF lack of arbitrage service.
When arbitrage service exists - buyer can ask about arbitrage and get all your money back. If coder at fault - he will receive appropriate rating (like "horrible"). Coder can ask about arbitrage too.
For example:
http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/SoftwareBuyers/ShowBuyerInfo.asp?lngAuthorId=906332
(Arbitration/mediation result):
CoderNameHere (the seller) agreed in their Seller Contract to upload all deliverables to the site by the deadline or they would forfeit the project. CoderNameHere did not do so. All funds in escrow were returned to BuyerNameHere (the buyer).

You describe how coder can cheat buyer at GAF.
I can describe how buyer can cheat coder at GAF. Even when all money escrowed:
1. Say, I am GAF buyer.
2. I employ a GAF coder. I put money to escrow.
3. Coder complete my task. And send me whole source code.
4. Buyer doesn’t complete escrow transaction, but send to coder "Last thing I forgot to ask you".
5. Each time coder complete "last thing", buyer will send new "last thing I forgot to ask you".

In result:
GAF buyer has full source code. GAF coder can't touch money, but ordered to work for free.
What coder can do without arbitrage service ?

Btw, this is link to CodeRover's profile
http://www.getafreelancer.com/users/79425.html

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2006-07-31 20:19:31 -
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2006-07-28 20:56:07 -
You completely missed to mark when you mentioned Rentacoder.com. I've been working there for many years and it's completely fair. You either don't know what your talking about, or your bunching them all together based on a few bad apples.

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2006-07-27 16:48:16 -
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2006-07-24 11:49:43 - Natalie
I agree the point of not issuing a deposit to developers, and I have to say that in the case of Getafreelancer, they are biased toward the developer, not the buyer.

I provided a $1K deposit, and placed $2K in escrow, to a developer by the name of CodeRover on Getafreelancer for a web-based app. The developer completely misrepresented his skills and was unable to deliver what our specs required. I had lost my deposit, which was OK with me because I knew that was a possibility, but here are the things that did shock me:

1) Buyers cannot cancel escrow - if you're scammed, it's up to the developer to "release" the escrow back to you, they can keep it even if they don't deliver.

2) GAF will not automatically reverse the escrow, they will try to mediate it so that the coder releases the escrow but will not get your money back UNLESS the coder just disappears and doesn't respond. If the coder contests, good luck getting your money back unless they're good and ready to let it go.

3) In my case, GAF negotiated my escrow back but in order to do so, the coder asked that GAF cancel the project as if it never existed. Why? So that I couldn't leave feedback warning future users of my experience with this developer. If the project never existed, you can't go in and rate the coder.

And what did GetAFreelancer.com do? They canceled the project, so other buyers potentially continue to purchase services from this coder and maybe lose their money as well.

In fairness I'd like to state that #1, the developer insisted until the last second that despite the poor quality code he provided, he was highly capable and wanted to continue the project. This is why I couldn't get the escrow back. If he "SAYS" he can do it, then I must just be trying to cancel the project for no reason. I must have *wanted* to give him $1,000 and lose six weeks of productivity.

To represent all sides, it is GAF's position that they canceled the project "for me" because it was a faster way to reach a compromise and get the coder to release the escrow.

What I guess I do not understand about this is, why does the coder have so much power. The escrow, I thought, protected both the buyer and the coder. But this is not the case. As a buyer, the burden of proof is on you. You have to PROVE this programmer is incapable, or the programmer has to fall off the face of the earth, for you to get your escrow back.

So in closing:

1) Ratings/feedback scores aren't always what they seem.
2) Escrows do not protect buyers, only coders.
3) Do NOT issue deposits unless you are prepared to lose the money.
4) The coder is protected by not having to release the code until you have paid, that's a fair enough trade. Do not escrow - pay AFTER you have seen the code.

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2006-07-07 11:21:06 - Sergey
john alen,

"Someone was working on a project, to help him feel more safer, I pay him some money to start."

Coder is enough protected by escrow system. If coder asks about prepayment I suggest to choose another coder.

"there are many other good freelancer websites out there."

These websites lack of arbitration and escrow systems. For example I can show typical response from GetAFreelancer:
"According to our terms of service we do not arbitrate, but can give recommendations.
If there's a dispute it should be solved between buyer and provider."

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Total 133 comments